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sharpshooter
USA
41 Posts |
 Posted - 07/07/2007 : 05:03:05 AM
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Is there ANY way to send out something to the teams and or the team captains to reassure these people that do not read the rules and bylaws that shots should be held to 20 sec. and TIMEOUTS are only 1 thats ONE minute long.It is getting old watching people take 5 -7 minutes just to miss.I'm not trying to be rude but (COME ON)it can be a bit frustrating.
PATIENCE IS KEY AND I KNOW THIS! |
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Taz
USA
555 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 06:33:53 AM
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"....send out something to the teams and or team captains to reassure these people that do not read the rules or bylaws...."
Hmmm....if they don't bother reading the rules or bylaws, what makes you think these same people will actually read anything else we send out? I'll see what I can do.
In the meantime, I suggest you make a point of addressing the opposing team's captain at the start of the night. Tell him/her that YOU will be keeping a close eye on YOUR team's slow player and the length of YOUR time-outs, and you would appreciate it if they did the same. |
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Historytchr
15 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 10:18:04 AM
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| Are you suggesting that all teams carry a timer to ensure that no one takes longer than 20 seconds between shots and that time outs do not exceed the 1 minute time limit? |
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Taz
USA
555 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 11:03:24 AM
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That's an interesting interpretation of my previous post; however, I do not recommend you take that approach, unless you are after having an "ugly" night. I suppose if BOTH TEAMS AGREE to use a stop watch or timer, they can, but don't expect the league office to get involved. If YOUR team wants to put a timer on YOUR own players and coaches, by all means do so. Perhaps it would encourage others to follow suit.
My point was simply this....If every team made a point to police THEIR OWN teammates and coaches, there would be very few late nights. Often times the team who is complaining forgets or doesn't realize they have teammates of their own guilty of the same infractions.
BTW, the time quideline is not 20 seconds between shots, its 20 seconds per shot (40 seconds for more difficult shots). |
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rhaydt
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 11:03:26 AM
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| Might not be a bad idea to use a timer. One minute is actually rather quick. It is rare to see a timeout last less than one minute. Some coaches take that long to get to the table. |
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Taz
USA
555 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 11:06:52 AM
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The Summer 2007 edition of The American Poolplayer should be arriving as we speak (mine was delivered in yesterday's mail). There is a great article on page 23 which addresses this very topic.
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Historytchr
15 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 11:31:53 AM
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| The timer comment was a joke. If teams started timing eachother that would, as Taz said, make for an "ugly" night. Remember that league night is a time to get together with friends, shoot pool, and have fun. If a team takes longer than a minute for their time out don't worry about it. Just play your game and have fun. |
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trhxke
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 12:01:40 PM
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As one who learned the hard (and slow) way, I think it would be great if the captains would just explain to their players what it is all about and make sure they understand the benefits too.
There has been a lot of discussion on this subject and there's nothing wrong with taking a few extra minutes on a very difficult situation but a lot of folks get carried away with that idea.
Usually it is the higher ranked players setting the example (walk around the table, consider all posibilities, measure the angles, consider the safty vs the offensive shot, then call time out, then take 5 minutes to discuss, the MISS the shot and SCRATCH!} and then the newer players follow suit and the whole team becomes a slow drag to play against.
We have actually closed a few places at 2 am due to this problem....but on the positive side....we finished 5 matches of 8 ball recently at the Arena and completed our paperwork by 10:48 PM...we were home by 11 pm that night....Thanks Christian Helland and the "Pocket Stuffers"!
Tom Hardinger
www.BigRigToys.com
Your Internet Source for pool cues, cases, table accessories, darts and various collectibles. |
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Taz
USA
555 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 12:28:04 PM
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Yes, leauge night is most definately about having fun, but lets remember that a lot of the "fun factor" is killed when people have to start worrying about getting home at a decent hour and getting up for work the next morning. There is nothing wrong with mentioning (politely) to the opposing team that there are time guidelines and YOU will be doing your best to observe them and would appreciate them doing the same.
"...there is nothing wrong with taking a few extra mninutes..." Yes there is. Guidelines are in place for a reason. A few extra seconds, perhaps. A few extra minutes...NO WAY!
Coaches need to remember that a time-out is not a teaching session. Those should be held at a different time. Ask your player what they see (what they are thinking about doing). Point out other options and allow your players to take their best shot.
Coach: Use top(but not too high)English, a soft-hard shot with medium-slow speed so that the cue ball will travel 3" past the 6-ball, contact the 5-Ball and veer to the left, roling the object ball 1/2 way across, deflecting off the 11-ball into the side pocket.
Player: Okay, so I hit the cue-ball just above center with what?
Hey, this could be a great comic strip... |
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rhaydt
USA
109 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 12:46:24 PM
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| Officially timing a match would be ridiculous. But put a clock on yourself or each other and challenge yourself to keep the timeout under one minute. You will find that it is not very easy to do. |
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trhxke
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 3:51:33 PM
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In the case of a 3 playing 8 ball against a 7 in a 2 to 6 match.
The score is 1 to 5 in a hill-hill game, the 3 is shooting the 8 but needs to do a 3 rail kick through traffic to sink the 8 and win the match and go to Vegas....she hasn't taken a time out in 6 games even though she is entitled to 2 per rack so she has save the teams 12 minutes.....now she need a LITTLE BIT of consideration to shoot the one shot that means everything.
Who would complain when the time out is a little more than a minute or 2 or even 3?...I guess some would but then they are truly missing the point aren't they?
Once again as in most cases common sense should trump the guide lines and rules should be adhered to ....so...we should all follow the rules and use common sense too when ever possible to do both.
Tom Hardinger
www.BigRigToys.com
Your Internet Source for pool cues, cases, table accessories, darts and various collectibles. |
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Taz
USA
555 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 5:53:45 PM
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With all due respect, I believe you are missing the point. We are discussing habitual abuse of time, not the occasional, rare circumstance, but even in the scenario you describe, consider the following...
Same scenario as described above, except that the match is taking place during the National Team Championships and the team has been warned about slow play and lengthy time-outs. Regardless of the fact that the player shooting has not used a time-out in any previous rack, the referee has been called over and the team has been put on the clock. Now see how well your low skill level player can handle the added pressure of a stop-watch, as the referee says "20 seconds....10 seconds...5....shoot or it's ball-in-hand". The best thing to do is not get in that situation at all.
Besides, why are you coaching your SL3 to shoot a 3-rail kick through traffic instead of playing a safety?
Allowing slow play and lengthy time-outs (minutes long) have nothing to do with being considerate. The considerate player is the one that observes the guidelines and learns to adjust accordingly. The considerate coach is the one that understands they only have one-minute to convey their instructions and does.
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trhxke
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 07/07/2007 : 6:06:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Taz
With all due respect, I believe you are missing the point. We are discussing habitual abuse of time, not the occasional, rare circumstance, but even in the scenario you describe, consider the following...
Same scenario as described above, except that the match is taking place during the National Team Championships and the team has been warned about slow play and lengthy time-outs. Regardless of the fact that the player shooting has not used a time-out in any previous rack, the referee has been called over and the team has been put on the clock. Now see how well your low skill level player can handle the added pressure of a stop-watch, as the referee says "20 seconds....10 seconds...5....shoot or it's ball-in-hand". The best thing to do is not get in that situation at all.
Besides, why are you coaching your SL3 to shoot a 3-rail kick through traffic instead of playing a safety?
Allowing slow play and lengthy time-outs (minutes long) have nothing to do with being considerate. The considerate player is the one that observes the guidelines and learns to adjust accordingly. The considerate coach is the one that understands they only have one-minute to convey their instructions and does.
I Agree on the definitions of a considerate player & coach.
Tom Hardinger
www.BigRigToys.com
Your Internet Source for pool cues, cases, table accessories, darts and various collectibles. |
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D-RACK
USA
321 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2007 : 09:51:07 AM
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Wow - I have been watching this and the one thing that I would like to see addressed is (For Example)
90% of the time if you tell the other team captain or coach that the time out is taking to long...... they continue to talk to the player and finish the time out ...NO matter what is said.....I dont care if it is HILL HILL for nationals 60-90 secounds is all the time you need to explain a shot.... That is y the rule is there.
As far as what Richard said I agree “Sometimes it takes the dam Coach
60 sec. to get to the table" Hell I have been guilty of that one... :)
I am not picking an argument but we all know the teams we get along with and the ones we don’t.... "Sportsmanship" is different then being nice...... Hence the word "SPORT" but you don’t have to be a jerk about it!
One of my Best friends has a 9 Ball team in Camarillo (Nat) and when we play each other there are no extra liberties being extended as far as the rules go...... (We definitely BREAK the sharking rule when we play each other...But hell I got to do something to throw him off his game...lol) 
Feel free to sound off about what I wrote ....Nothing you say can bother me ...I want to know how you feel.....
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Torsten
USA
401 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2007 : 3:43:37 PM
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Just an observation. This issue (timeouts being too long) is not one that I have witnessed as an ongoing problem (multiple times in a match) too often. But from experience, the ones who are the first to bring up time if a timeout goes a few seconds over the minute mark are also the ones who habitually take 2-7 minutes for their timeouts. The following actually happened. These events transpire in the same frame.
First frame in a match between a 3 on my team and a 2 on the other team.
Their 2 is in a tough spot and calls a genuinely needed timeout. In fact, the spot is so tough the opposing team's coach (a good player) needs to take about 30 seconds to figure out what he would do if caught in this situation himself. I tell my player what to do in case he ends up with a ball-in-hand and proceed to wander off to the boys room. When I get back, the other team is still in their timeout. I don't think much of it. It is, after all, a brutal shot. I decide to grab a quick smoke. I come back. You guessed it. Now the coach is talking to his other team members away from the table to see if they have any ideas. A minimum of five minutes have transpired before the player finally takes the shot. A nice try but a foul nonetheless. My player, either disregarding my advice or having forgotten it altogether in light of the fact I gave it to him while Nixon was still president makes his shot but creams it WAY too hard, messing up his shape. Now HE needs a timeout. I kid you knot, the clock hits 60 seconds and I hear, "Torsten?". I look up, and the opposing team's coach is tapping his wrist watch, in the universally known gesture meaning "Your time is up, butthead, now have your player take their shot.". I honestly at first thought he was kidding. Anyway, the situation was resolved very amicably and hasn't arisen again any time our two teams have played. Still, keep in mind the source when these complaints are made.
By the way, at regional championships, any team having made the final, with all due respect, ought to be aware that referees can be summoned at any time. What Taz said is absolutely right. You can't POSSIBLY maintain your composure with a ref counting down in your ear. Determine the shot. Show your player how and where to hit it. Put your hand on their shoulder and say, "Commit to the shot. No matter what happens, have fun. Good luck." Then proceed to beat them if they miss. Just kidding. Sort of.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa -- not screaming like the passengers in his car" |
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sunnicagrl
18 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2007 : 4:16:07 PM
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Get up to the table and hit the ball! Hehehehe.. Be respectful to other teams and remember that rules/guidelines/bylaws are in place for a reason. If you have been on a league team for over one season you should know these rules and help your team to play by them!
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20 seconds!! 1 minute!!
