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movistar
193 Posts |
 Posted - 08/20/2007 : 3:38:07 PM
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I would like to know what the RULES are, and what the PENALTIES are for teams or captains who deliberatly, encourage THEIR players to hold back on their playing skills In order to keep their skill levels at a DISHONEST LEVEL . THUS, manipulating the system !
if anybody reads this posting and doesn't think it happens.... you have your head in the potty and are in denial..... |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2007 : 3:57:15 PM
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If I am not mistaken you send your complaint to the league office in writing and try to be as specific as possible
You only lose when you stop learning |
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Doug Gill
USA
92 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2007 : 7:32:52 PM
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As for the rules, this addressed in the "Team Manual" which you can find elsewhere on this site.
With regard to the penalties, I know that in last couple years (time frame may be off a bit) there was a captain/team that was documented to be "sandbagging" and this team was stripped of all their titles, including at least regional if not national qualification, and the captain was at least suspended if not banned from the APA for an indeterminate amount of time.
This was all started by people/captains doing the right thing......WRITE IT UP!!!!!!!
Our league operators do not allow this in any way shape or form and will exercise every option they have to make sure that at least South Coast APA is run and played above board.
Good Shooting All! |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 09:53:23 AM
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Be careful on your accusations of sandbagging though. You cant get caught up in the trend of writing people up because you or your player got beat. You also need to be carefull on accusing a captain on this because you could overhear them talking about how the player might go up but not hear the captain tell them that the team needs as many points as possible and that means a win at the cost of going up. There is also the defense issue of people not marking them or marking extra ones. You need to be carefull on these issues and make sure you are not assuming anything that might not be true. There is a wonderful feeling in going up in rating and being able to do well and I think that people that sandbag are robbing themselves more than they are their opponents.
You only lose when you stop learning |
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Torsten
USA
401 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 09:55:36 AM
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Sandbagging is pretty despicable, as are all acts that can be filed under "cheating". I would recommend that if you see someone who is partaking in or encouraging this act to submit it in writing to the league office. And be specific. I saw player A on this team deliberately keeping the innings high to avoid SL promotionor even worse, I saw and heard coach A telling his SL 2 to miss some shots so they would get the innings high and not go up.
Generally, people who try to manipulate the rules will have accumulated a reputation over time. It takes honest people such as yourself to report these infractions. You can be certain that cheaters will not freely admit to wrong-doing.
Now, all of this being said, I don't think that sandbagging is a rampant problem in our region. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, but by and large we do a pretty good job of reporting it when it does happen. So keep up the good work.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa -- not screaming like the passengers in his car" |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 10:18:24 AM
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Torsten
I do agree that it is cheating and what I am saying is that we have more of a problem with people being mad that they got thumped than we do with people sandbagging. I think that you should be sure before you start anything.
You only lose when you stop learning |
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Torsten
USA
401 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 11:50:01 AM
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You're absolutely right, Keith. Sandbagging is a very sensitive thing, probably about the worst thing you can accuse someone of in this league. Which is why, if you have concerns, bring them up to the league office. Confronting someone about sandbagging can lead to very unpleasant feelings.
It's odd how someone would complain about sandbagging after they got "thumped" as you put it. Generally, that happens when one player, usually the lower ranked of the two, has a better game than his or her opponent. And if it turns out to be appropriate, skill levels will be adjusted in that case. You don't often see a SL2 win in short innings (my definition of a thumping) without subsequently earning a promotion in skill level.
Keep in mind, the lowest and highest skill levels in our league are infinite. Johnny Archer would be a 7 - 9 and my three-day old nephew would be a 2 - 1 (never mind that he's 20 years and 362 days short of the age requirement). Even the middle skill levels are going to have degrees. A brand knew SL 4 who just got promoted after a good run as a SL3 is probably not going to quite as successful at the beginning as a SL4 who has been battletested at that level, and is accustomed to playing middle-tier skilled players. One would hope that we have the wherewithall to distinguish between a player who is trying to manipulate the system, and one who is having an off night, or a fantastic one.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa -- not screaming like the passengers in his car" |
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D-RACK
USA
321 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 4:01:13 PM
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OK now that that is said ..... How would you handle it if you as a captian was told at the end of a mach that your team was a bunch of sandbaggers.....
It happen to me twice this year by the same team....actually the same player....
I was ****ing pissed.... But what can i say.. i ve been in this league for almost 10 years have 0ver 580 matches played if i am not the correct skill level WTF??
I shrugged it off at shaked my oponiets hand ( By the way BEAT me.....and i was still accused of being a sandbagger..lol) Whatever.... it only a game ...Right?
D-RACK |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 4:36:23 PM
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If I remember correctly the league in camarillo is quick to say that someone is a sandbagger and I personaly was accused of it from day 1. Some of them dont realize that some people have good and bad days and others get nervous when they join. The league office will look at it and if it makes no sence then they will throw it out and the other party will have their name in question and you will be fine.
PS You would do well as a 7 as you are very tallented.
You only lose when you stop learning |
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sunnicagrl
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2007 : 5:19:16 PM
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| Thanks Bud! |
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Torsten
USA
401 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 2:28:13 PM
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Derick. Personally, here's how I would handle it if an opposing team out and out called me or someone on my team a sandbagger. I would give them the APA league office number and tell them to take up their beef through official channels. Of course it would anger me. I'm nothing if not honest. But hey, you can't always please everyone. Just make sure you keep your composure.
Fortunately, I've never had anyone accuse me of cheating.
Funny enough, I have a player on my team who had the following statements made about him in back to back weeks. At the time, he was an SL4 by the way.
"Wow! Your guy is a great shot. How on Earth is he not a 5!?"
"Hey. Your player is a nice guy but he's a little in over his head as a 4, dontcha think? He's probably more of a 3."
There are people in the league who think I should be ranked a 7 and there are those that are chomping at the bit to play against me because they think I'm a lousy 6. It just is what it is.
"When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa -- not screaming like the passengers in his car" |
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trhxke
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 2:52:33 PM
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Torsten hit the nail on the head here!
"Wow! Your guy is a great shot. How on Earth is he not a 5!?"
"Hey. Your player is a nice guy but he's a little in over his head as a 4, dontcha think? He's probably more of a 3."
There are people in the league who think I should be ranked a 7 and there are those that are chomping at the bit to play against me because they think I'm a lousy 6. It just is what it is.
I too have had these same conversations and usually with someone who has just lost badly or watched his team lose badly and also it is usually someone who has not been around very long and has not seen the swings in the way we ALL play (GREAT one nite and TERRIBLE another nite).
That's why we are amatuers and that is the purpose of the handicap system.... to smooth out the wrinkles!
Torsten and I will both be 7's in 8 ball as soon as we play GOOD ENOUGH! ...........SOOOOOOO until then we just keep trying.
Tom Hardinger
www.BigRigToys.com
Your Internet Source for pool cues, cases, table accessories, darts and various collectibles.
www.myspace.com/bigrigtom |
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pfan
14 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 4:41:02 PM
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| Tom's got it right. I played and shutout a SL5 in eight ball one week and then lost to a SL2 the next. BTW, I'm a SL6 and was trying not to lose to the SL2 but made too many errors. Go figure. |
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trhxke
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2007 : 4:48:24 PM
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Ask Richard Haydt about that kind of thing.
He played great all night, 8 ball break, Break and run, had 5 to nothing in a 6 to 2 race and he lost to a 3 because of a mistake in game 6 and then the 3 shot like GOD in game 7 winning 2 to 5.
I played a 3 had him 4 to nothing in a 5 to 2 race, I scratched on the 8 ball then the 3 broke and ran on me.
Anything is possible and it will usually happen when you least expect it. It's called 8 ball!
Tom Hardinger
www.BigRigToys.com
Your Internet Source for pool cues, cases, table accessories, darts and various collectibles.
www.myspace.com/bigrigtom |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2007 : 01:46:26 AM
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first things first. Torsten I chomp at the bit to play you because you play more like a 7. I dont understand how a question with a simple answer can get so much going. If you think someone is sandbaging then keep an eye open and then contact the league office. But you cant call on one person and not on another. You have to be able to call on yourself or your own team before you call on another team for the same thing. If you call on another player you thenset a bar that no matter who does it you call it. I see and hear teams complain all the time and they have the same issue on there team.
You only lose when you stop learning |
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Keith
USA
242 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2007 : 01:53:30 AM
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To elaborate on something that is situational. One team mate of mine came into the league with a sliced bridge hand and could not play well the first week. When the stiches were taken out he played a little better the next week. The week after that he played like he could and luckily it was against phils team because he had been playing his heart out and due to a cut could not shoot straight. Due to this I think that before you blame someone of sandbagging you have to know the whole picture and not just that one streach of 2 to 7 racks that this person just played.
You only lose when you stop learning |
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Topic |
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SANDBAGGING !!!
