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ginger
USA
35 Posts |
 Posted - 06/24/2005 : 4:49:26 PM
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LOL! Point taken, but in all honesty...if someone doesn't have anything better to do then complain about how the APA was sexist in the starting handicap system (which jumps around so much it wont make sense anyway)...I personally wouldn't want to be in the same room , let alone across a pool table from them....That just screams "I have some serious issues" to me LOL.
-ginger |
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Dani
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2005 : 1:25:34 PM
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| Its good to see someone who is looking out for equality between men and women but I would like to see you advocating these same ideals the next time a woman is up for the same promotion you are. If equalilty is so important in your life why don't you promote these ideals in a place that would make more of a difference in the fight for equality, then I might believe that you are legitimately concerned for the constitutional rights of women and not just mad because every new coming woman who starts at a 3 is giving you a run for your money. |
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Torsten
USA
401 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2005 : 3:16:22 PM
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I'm a bit offended by the insinuation that I am sexist, or making posts for selfish reasons.  I hope I am misunderstanding. I have emailed you clarifying my feelings. |
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Kerry Randolph
USA
172 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2005 : 10:21:43 AM
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How did a relatively lighthearted discussion about entering skill levels in a pool league evolve into the constitutional rights for women? I am all for equal rights, but we are talking about a pool league.
I took a few minutes to check the two leagues I play in to see where the women are at in their skill levels.
Ventura eight ball has 30 women. 12 of them are skill level 3 or lower. 8 are 4 or higher.
Oxnard nine ball has 22 women. 18 are 3 or lower. 4 are 4 or higher.
I believe the rule is right on. How else can you make it fair for the new players.
Bye the way one of the best shooters I have ever seen is a lady playing right here in the APA. |
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Torsten
USA
401 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2005 : 10:52:54 AM
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Kerry,
Didn't you know that the APA has been the driving force behind constitutional amendments since 1876? Former president William Howard Taft was a 7 believe it or not.... 
In all seriousness, it WAS a light-hearted discussion. But that being said, it was a discussion with a purpose. It's a matter of what is fair to everyone. I agree with you that the rule is currently fair. However, it IS an issue and it's important for our members, especially our female players who make up an ever growing percentage of our membership, to feel they are being treated fairly and equally. The conundrum here is, the rule may be fair but it is not equal. Is fairness more important than equality in this instance? I dunno to be honest with you. |
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fairfax
USA
46 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2005 : 02:06:16 AM
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Hey Now
Well as I see it, let's look at Ginger's last coment
Let have Fun!
Is this not one of the main reason for playing this sport?
Yes we all want an equal playing field here.
We have a board That oversees problems and try's to resolve them equally.
Put out a questioneer see what the member's want.
Me personally Let it stay as is.
We are here to have fun and learn from others, either gender.
It not about sexs it about skill and sportmanship and making new friends
Can't we all just get along!
Mark Jones |
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ApaMVP
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2005 : 1:08:45 PM
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I think how it came about regarding the 'starting' handicaps for male/females was very simple. Looking at the average handicap for ALL women more than likely calculated to a '3' level, whereas the average handicap for ALL men likely calculated to a '4' level. This is not sexist, but a simple measure of performance, independently "By Gender".
ONLY directed towards those who feel the APA is sexist, consider this. Make sure ALL females playing in the APA play to a higher level of play than the men. The starting handicaps, I'm sure will adjust appropriately, BASED on performance, NOT sex. |
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ginger
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2005 : 1:40:03 PM
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::see's one persons post that definetly fits into the comment I made about having some issues (step away from the pool cue, and here's your sign!)::
-ginger |
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Taz
USA
555 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2005 : 2:17:07 PM
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| APAMVP, but there in lies the problem. Why measure performance, independently, by gender? Why not just measure performance for ALL players and have ALL players start from the same starting line? A pool player is a pool player is a pool player. Whether the player is a he/she/it, blond/burnett/redhead, tall/short/fat/skinny, catholic/protestant/baptist, whatever, they should all start from the same place. |
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Torsten
USA
401 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2005 : 2:26:39 PM
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| Taz, lets be fair now. If we are going to do that, everyone needs to starts as a 4 except for redhead, tall, fat, baptist martians. They need to start as SL 6 seeing as they have an inherent advantage. |
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ginger
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2005 : 4:55:32 PM
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Torsten, I think I saw someone like that last week ! LOL
-ginger |
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ApaMVP
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2005 : 5:21:20 PM
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| Taz, perhaps I'm wrong, but my guess would be, way back in the day when the very 'first' organized apa started, perhaps the league did start everyone out equally. Maybe I'm wrong about this as well, but perhaps a woman way back when, made the first complaint about the unfairness of having to start at the same level a man did. In conclusion, perhaps that is where gender by gender performance was taken into consideration leading to today's starting skill levels. |
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A Pool God
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2005 : 10:00:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ApaMVP
Taz, perhaps I'm wrong, but my guess would be, way back in the day when the very 'first' organized apa started, perhaps the league did start everyone out equally. Maybe I'm wrong about this as well, but perhaps a woman way back when, made the first complaint about the unfairness of having to start at the same level a man did. In conclusion, perhaps that is where gender by gender performance was taken into consideration leading to today's starting skill levels.
That is correct. At one time, everyone started as a skill level 3. However, at that time, 2 skill level 3's playing against each other was a race to 3 rather than a race to 2. I guess I'm showing my age. 
SD APA League Operator |
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Taz
USA
555 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2005 : 07:03:05 AM
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APAMVP
"Way back when" women were suppossed to stay home barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen. "Way back when" women were not part of the work force nor was it encouraged for them to seek higher education. "Way back when" women were not allowed to spend time in the smokey, drinking, gambling den of ill repute, i.e. dingy poolrooms - that was men's territory. "Way back when" women were not encourage to play, let alone learn the game(sport).
Generally speaking (there are always exceptions) I would bet you that women today are much better at this sport than women were 25 years ago. Unlike "way back when" a woman today has as much of an opportunity to spend time in a poolhall or tavern practicing and improving her game. |
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johnnyshotmaker
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2005 : 1:09:49 PM
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Solrry Girls but its a fact. Otherwise you there wouldnt be a seperate mens and womans pro tour. Same with golf, thats why they have closer tees. But I admit your way better at other things I wouldnt dream of even trying ;)
Who's Your Daddy! |
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Gender Bias
Topic Locked
